DISQUS

Paul · 3 months ago

Thanks Joe. This was one question I always had and always stressed about when I had setbacks in my training. Good to know.

Rusty · 3 months ago

Is this level of scientific training really necessary? Or is it a market created by coaches to make us believe that we need them to achieve our goals? I ride hard and it gets me good results - period. I don't see any need for all this periodization stuff. It's making it more complicated than it needs to be

coachophile · 3 months ago

Ah Rusty, if you are content with your "good" results, then you should keep doing what you are doing. But maybe you get "better" results with a coach? You will never know if you don't try and if you don't know, then sorry, you aren't qualified to comment on the efficacy or otherwise of a coach. You only know one side of the story so far. If your good results remain good after completing a coach-directed program, then your comment might hold some water. Up until then, as the nun said to the vicar, "don't knock it if you haven't tried it."

averagejoe · 3 months ago

Rusty I can't tell you the difference having a coach has made for me. I used to train myself hard, mixing it up with hills, aerobic work, sprints etc. But the coach has made ALL the difference in my results. Cannot assure you that it will work for everyone, and I believe that there are some people out there who are trying "too hard" to sell their knowledge. But it's gotta be worth a shot right? I mean, every top level cyclist has a coach! And I bet the "scientific training" they do makes all the difference for him too.

MH · 3 months ago

Being a coach for over 10 years, currently of a novice and intermediate group, and formerly of elite (amatuer) cyclists I can say that I'm a huge fan of periodisation. It IS better than just riding hard all the time. To fully understand that you need to do a bit of homework. But bang for your buck it's by far more efficient.

HOWEVER, what I do see too often is amatuer cyclists - racing and non-pro elites - taking it FAR too seriously. Now I know 'too' seriously is very subjective, but for the most part I advise setting a training plan that is REALISTIC for the normal person - you know one that actually involves a job, possibly a family etc.

Don't set your goals too high, or set unrealistic training schedules that put increased pressure on your work/life/cycling balance.

Can't tell you how many I've seen train like they were pros, seeing less and less of their family and friends and sadly, they were never EVER going to cut it (WW - Deminishing returns, right) They forget why they started cycling in the first place, their 10 - 15 hour a week fun sport turns into a 20 - 25+ obsession.

Keep it real people, and enjoy it for what it is, not what you think it could be.

cyclingtips · 3 months ago

Great advice MH. One of the best statements said about training on this blog in fact.

Anonymous · 3 months ago

MH does have a very good point regarding a 10-15 hour a week sport becoming a 20-25 hour a week obsession. It’d be nice to have a whiz bang program from a coach, but to put in bluntly, I just can’t justify spending $400 per quarter (I’m told that is the going rate) for someone to tell me when I can and cant ride. A google search/$30 for a book could help me draw up a similar program. Also, so many riders don’t place in races simply because they stuff up their position/tactics, not because they are not fit enough to be there at the end. I know a few guys who get coached, I am yet to see or hear of one of their coaches analyse the riders’ tactics of the race, or come out and watch. Riding is fun, particularly when the weather is improving during the spring, I hate the idea of not being able to go out on a long ride on mild, calm spring days because it is not in my ‘program’.

Paul · 3 months ago

I agree with MR and Anonymous above. I am just about to get rid of my Coach! $500.00 a quarter and all I ever hear is how good he was and how many races he won! Coach's are really just failed sportman/women that live in their past glory. Get out there and ride, enjoy the Hills and good weather, it will beat any program. Unless it's your full time job and you have coach's, nutritionists, exercise physiologists etc and therefore no life!

coachophile · 3 months ago

Paul, I presume your sweeping generalisation (coaches = failed sportsmen) was designed to attract comment. If not, you should get out more and meet some coaches who do not meet your description - there are plenty out there. And while we are at it, your thoughts and MH's (or MR as you incorrectly wrote - typing coach required?) might not be in exact alignment given he/she is a coach! I believe MH's comments went more to setting realistic goals and programs - possibly with or without the help of a coach.
Similar to the services of many providers, be they personal trainers, investment advisers, handymen or pool cleaners "do-it-yourself" is good for some and not right for others. And value is in the eye of the beholder.
What services were promised for your $500 a quarter? Were those services delivered or did you not specify them before beginning the program. If the latter, then more fool you for not speccing out the job first!

James · 3 months ago

Coachophile, is your name Pat? From your two replies you sound like my old Coach, Pig Headed, always Right and NEVER wrong! Plenty of Coach's out there that don't live in the past and always talk about themselves rather than their pupils! Man I'd love to meet one, probably living in some endagered park somewhere in Africa. You don't sound like one of the endagered Coach's from your comments. Probably just another former average sportsman who's done a coaching course. I get the same results now than when I used a Coach due to my hard work and research (24hr Solo MTB World Champs racer) The Only difference is I don't pay his Bills and have him standing around talking about himself. Maybe I should Hire a Pool Cleaner!

coachophile · 3 months ago

Sorry CT - just gotta make a few responses to my mate James.
1. How did you come to the conclusion that I am a coach? "phile" is a combining form that suggests enthusiasm for the initial element, in this case, coaches. It doesn't mean I am one. But thanks for the complement about sounding right all the time. It is a necessary evil when one is right.
2. It is somewhat curious that you complain about a coach talking of oneself yet feel the need to mention your own achievements.
3. Only get a pool cleaner if you own a pool.
4. By mentioning your own research, I think it can be said that we agree structured training, whether delivered by a coach or be it self-directed, is a good thing. And I believe Mr. Friel's article was aimed at enhancing one's training program. So we are in agreement, yes?
Anyway, off to look for a blogging coach so I can take my comments to a new level.

cyclingtips · 3 months ago

Guys, I greatly appreciate your comments and opinions. Keep in mind that the complement that I get most often about this site (and is more of a compliment to you) is to how educated and mature the reader comments are here versus other sites. I won’t moderate comments as I feel that you have the right to say anything and some debate and banter between everyone is healthy. I’d love to see it progress in the direction I’ve tried to set instead of it going down the toilet. Everyone loses if that happens.

Highly regarded professionals like Joe Friel, Hunter Allen, Matthew Keenan, etc contribute here partly because of the quality of the audience and commenters. I think I speak for everyone by saying that we'd like to see this stay and even grow.

Thank you.

If all else fails I’ll organise a ride with Wendy and you guys.

Matt · 3 months ago

Sorry Wade, but this has to said. Coachaphile, while you are off looking for a blogging coach why don't you find a new blog to visit and Bugger Off! You sound like an absolute tool!

Justin · 3 months ago

This was a really well timed article for me personally just coming off several days of illness and 12+ hour work days... :(

I actually think this is one of the hardest parts of training to get right - esp for the self-coached (ie: me). It's often really tempting to try and squeeze missed sessions back in around work, or whatever (as MH mentions above), and it's a damn easy trap to fall into when you don't have the perspective to be able to step back from your own training.

Just my $0.02...

Thanks for the advice Joe - love your work, hope you write more.

cyclingtips · 3 months ago

This discussion does plant the seed for a great article on what coaching is good for and who would benefit. It's definitely not for everyone. I could write it here and now but then I'd be scratching my head on what to write next week

Juz · 3 months ago

Having self coached and also been coached, and done periodised programs for both, I can say that they both work, even at the modest level that I ride at. If you are new to cycling, you are likely to be wasting your time if you are doing it to aim for a result in a specific race. You are better off racing as often as you can and learning how to race- losing the race is more likely to be due to your brain than your body at this level. Unlike what has been said above, a number of coaches here in Melbourne will come to your races, and give you feedback on how you are riding- that is at least as valuable as telling you when to do your SE sessions.

Mr. W · 3 months ago

There are some spirited responses here. I hope to add a bit of balance (perhaps even help start WW that next article :-P) Anyway, I have done the self coaching and I have been coached by good coaches and not so good coaches. I had good results self-coaching, but better results with a good coach. I will leave out the not-so-good coach as I address this consideration in (2).

1) As stated earlier, carefully consider your goals. If you just want to have fun and ride "hard" then I don't think a coach is right for you. Coming to a coach with goals such as "I want to go faster" is far too vague and there will be no critical way to assess your own progress or how that person has helped you achieve in this process. You need to really consider what is attainable, already have some sort of a game plan before you ever go to a coach. What a coach will do is help you set intermediate goals, exercise plans and assess your personal progress, but really the onus is still on you as an athlete.

2) Coaches are very much a personal fit, which you are free to change at anytime. Just because someone is a "coach" doesn't mean their system and manner of communication will be good fit for how you ride/train/communicate. You should be listening, asking questions, and assess their performance, just as much as they are assessing yours. Remember you are *paying* them, if its not working then *gracefully* end the relationship.

3) Coaches are not psychic - its the garbage in/garbage out paradigm. While good coaches are quite knowledgeable, they cannot tell if the workouts were too hard/easy, boring or even skipped entirely if you do not clearly communicate these facts. For example, if I am *really* too tired to do a workout I will say so, or if I am feeling mildly depressed/lethargic I will communicate this (I find that after an intense series of races like superweek here in BC - canuckland). Some people I know avoid telling their coach these sorts of things because they feel guilty, then feel resentment towards their coach because they don't know what is going on and treat them accordingly - yes its that crazy.
----
A Coach is there to assist you in accomplish your goals - they are a resource, and should be an enabler. However, the onus still lies on you to do the work, assess the relationship, and to honestly assess if you are reaching your goals and if they are helping you accomplish it. If you do not treat it as such, you will probably find yourself disappointed because of lack of direction.

Finally, I will just say goals don't have to be something "big" like winning Nationals, but can be as simple such as finishing your first century ride. Depending on the goals, the type of coach and amount of involvement required will vary (as well as the price).

cyclingtips · 3 months ago

Very well said Mr W. I couldn't agree more with your points.

I have a few things to add but I'll save them for a blog post next week.

The Big Ring · 3 months ago

I think the biggest trap for a rider is riding too much - Joe's guidelines are good for helping you "keep it real" and not try to squeeze missed workouts into the rest of the week, as well as doing a gradual increase / stepping back a cycle when you miss more than a week or two.

Coaches are good in that they help you focus on one thing - riding your bike. That's all some people want to do. And for the most part coach has an objective view on your fitness and training, and can help you stay out of the danger zone - overtraining - which I think is the goal of Joe's post here.

I am finding coaching is a highly rewarding and interesting aspect to cycling. For me, coaching is all about the athlete, where they are, where they want to get to, and how we're going to help them get there. Just as I imagine a parent watching their child learn to walk is momentous, watching your clients improve and get fitter and stronger is very satisfying and even exciting.

One thing I realised earlier this week is that a coach's "program" for you is not what you HAVE to do - just as a speed limit sign is not the speed at which you HAVE to drive. If it's wet, or there's debris or dangerous conditions, you need to modify your driving to suit, the sign simply indicates the upper limit. So too, your program may need modification *down* due to your conditions - sick, stressed, insufficient sleep / recovery, etc, etc. Communication is key.

Bike Cycling · 3 months ago

Base training is the foundation of stress training. If the cyclist wants to bring out all his potential out of this training, he should plan properly, monitor and act simultaneously. The best way to train scientifically is by your pulse, you can’t take your pulse as you are riding as this is dangerous, much better idea to have a pulse monitor.